BW: You mention some really good reasons. Are you one of those souls that attract tests and difficulties?

Justice: It would be easy to say “yes” because I have lived a fairly eventful life – but I don’t think it is because I attract tests. Instead, it is that I have chosen to take on some fairly significant challenges. When I was a new Bahá’í, I heard William Sears, Hand of the Cause of God, say that one soul could illumine an entire continent. I set that as a goal, but God knew that I had a lot of baggage to let go of before I could even make the attempt. My first 20 years as a Bahá’í were spent having God throw me into the fire repeatedly until I burned away the biggest of my burdens. He’s not finished with me yet, but we’ve moved onto the polishing stage. By comparison, I feel my life is now a bed of roses. The flowers are sweet, but the thorns keep me up at night. I still want to illumine a continent, but my idea of what that means has become more nuanced.

BW: Many of us can relate to being thrown in fire. In the midst of agonizing trials how can one be thankful to God?

Justice: I know that that is the ideal, but to be honest, I don’t know if it is terribly practical to expect it of ourselves. When I’m in the middle of a test, my goal is to simply not let myself get overwhelmed – to avoid collapsing into a pile of depression, guilt, shame or fear. If I can remind myself that I am not being punished; that God loves me; and that everything will be OK in the end, then I can find the mental energy I need to find a solution. It is only after the test is over that I can look back and be truly thankful, because I can see what I’ve learned and how I’ve grown.

BW: In the book, you talk about tests being gifts and not punishments. Could elaborate on that?

Justice: The belief that God punishes us goes bone deep. When I tell people that God never ever punishes people – that God is only and forever about calling us towards our highest potential – I can almost see people shudder. It is a hard truth to hear, even though it should be a source of joy and celebration. But here is the essence of it: The only thing in the universe worth having is the virtues that God placed within our own hearts. Every single thing that God does to us or for us is designed to help us polish those virtues. When the process of polishing hurts, we think we are being punished, but we are really being illumined. God is giving us to ourselves. He is giving us our capacity for growth, for compassion, for understanding. What greater gift could we ask for?

BW: From what you just said it is a way of self-discovery?

Justice: One way of thinking of a difficulty is as a situation in which a needed virtue is missing. As we try to solve the difficulty, we become aware of the virtue that is already inside of us, waiting to be developed enough to improve the situation. If we were already well-acquainted with our own virtues, then when we faced a difficult situation it wouldn’t be a test. To DIS-cover or UN-cover ourselves, we must face situations that call for virtues that we haven’t found within ourselves yet.

BW: Can self-discovery happen if one does not believe in God?

Justice: It depends on what you mean by believing in God. If you mean, can you develop your virtues while rejecting the name “God” and avoiding all religions? Of course. But can you discover your true self if you don’t believe in the virtues of God that are reflected in the world of creation? No. One can recognize kindness, courage, honesty and generosity without acknowledging that they are attributes of God. Knowing their Source helps, but I would rather a person love the attributes of God and reject the name, than bow down in worship to the word “God” while taking pleasure in the suffering of others.

BW: Good explanation. Challenges in all walks of life—science, politics, work, family, friendship, religion—present opportunities for us to grow. Is it true?

Justice: Of course. Virtues are infinite, and the areas in which they are needed are myriad.

BW: Why one should be thankful to God or anyone else?

Justice: Good question. God doesn’t need our thanks. He is the self-sufficient. Gratitude is for our own sake. When we have an “attitude of gratitude” as the 12-step groups call it, we open ourselves up to seeing God’s gifts all around us. Just as when we expect to be punished we see tests as punishments, if we expect to be blessed, then we see blessings in all of the challenges that we face. The fact is, God has “ordained for [our] training every atom in existence and the essence of all created things.” Everything is a gift, so we might as well be grateful for it all.

BW: It is comforting to know that God created everything around us for our own good and not for His sake. In the last chapter, you make connection between individual trials and those of a community and nation. Could tell us more?

Justice: This is one of the most difficult issues I address in the book because it touches upon the question of the suffering of the innocent. I really can’t do justice to such a sensitive subject in a short interview, but I will make one observation: I’m currently reading the Bhagavadgita – the primary Hindu scripture. In the first chapter, a noble warrior is speaking with Lord Krishna before the beginning of a huge battle. The warrior is in anguish, not because of fear, but because he knows that no matter who wins or looses the battle, many friends, family and loved ones will die. This is a clash of brother against brother, and the warrior cannot see any good ending to it. Thousands will die in a tragedy of epic proportions. He wonders if it wouldn’t be better to die than to be a part of the slaughter.

Lord Krishna’s answer is unexpected. He says (and I’m paraphrasing) “So what?” From His (God’s) perspective, no one is going to die. Death and destruction mean absolutely nothing. What matters is that people choose to take the side of the Right, True and Noble, or choose their own selfish interests. In the blink of a cosmic eye, they will all be physically dead anyway, battle or no. What we humans consider to be earth-shattering problems – AIDS in Africa, hurricanes in New Orleans, wars in you-know-where, are all nothing more than opportunities for all of us to choose sides; to do what is right, or run and hide.

BW: In this process, do we get to know God better?

Justice: Yes and no. God is unknowable. The only things we can know about God are the qualities of God that He placed within our own hearts and minds. Our goal, then, is to know ourselves better, and yes, tests are how we do that.

“How resplendent the luminaries of knowledge that shine in an atom, and how vast the oceans of wisdom that surge within a drop! To a supreme degree is this true of man, who, among all created things, hath been invested with the robe of such gifts, and hath been singled out for the glory of such distinction. For in him are potentially revealed all the attributes and names of God to a degree that no other created being hath excelled or surpassed. All these names and attributes are applicable to him. Even as He hath said: "Man is My mystery, and I am his mystery." Manifold are the verses that have been repeatedly revealed in all the Heavenly Books and the Holy Scriptures, expressive of this most subtle and lofty theme. Even as He hath revealed: "We will surely show them Our signs in the world and within themselves." Again He saith: "And also in your own selves: will ye not, then, behold the signs of God?" And yet again He revealeth: "And be ye not like those who forget God, and whom He hath therefore caused to forget their own selves." In this connection, He Who is the eternal King — may the souls of all that dwell within the mystic Tabernacle be a sacrifice unto Him — hath spoken: "He hath known God who hath known himself."” (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 177)

BW: You published this book in 2003, what changes would you make if you were to revise it?

Justice: This book is a general introduction to the idea that we can learn through our difficulties. As such, there is not a lot I would change. These ideas may not be new to Bahá’ís, but they are to most people, so I don’t want to overwhelm them. There is, however, a lot more to say about tests, which is why I’m continuing to write. I am currently working on an article about the difference between little tests that help us grow, and soul-shaking tests than invite us to be transformed. I also hope to write a series of booklets about emotions, including depression, anger and love, that will address some specific tests.

BW: Can you elaborate on love and fear of God?

Justice: I don’t really like the term “fear of God.” God is always on our side. God is always ready to help us. The only thing we have to fear is that we will not be ready and willing to receive the blessings that have been placed within us and all around us for the taking. Likewise, the love of God is not the love of the name of God, or some ideal image in your mind. To love God is to love His attributes wherever you find them – and they are EVERYWHERE. Perhaps our greatest fear should be that we might look out into the world and fail to see God reflected in every atom of creation. That failure would not be in creation, but in our heart’s ability to be attracted to God’s beauty. "No thing have I perceived, except that I perceived God within it, God before it, or God after it."

BW: Since we are bound to make mistakes, is it not comforting to know that we can always rely on God’s forgiveness, regardless of the severity of the sin.

Justice: Yes and no. I relate a story in Falling Into Grace about being on pilgrimage and reading in the Iqan that a visitor to Akka who leaves as a pilgrim will have all of his sins forgiven – both past and future. On one hand, this knowledge was a great relief. On the other hand, being forgiven doesn’t protect me from the natural consequences of my own foolish behavior. Talk about fear! There can be a very long and painful gap between the moment when you become enlightened enough to recognize a mistake and the time that you become enlightened enough to know how to correct it. That’s when prayers for wisdom come in handy.

BW: I like the way you redefine punishment. Could you elaborate more?

Justice: There are two things that we often think of as punishment that aren’t. One, as I just mentioned, is the natural consequence of our own actions. We fool ourselves into thinking that we are behaving well, then act surprised when the consequences of our actions catch up with us. In these situations, prayers for forgiveness are really requests that God circumvent the laws of cause and effect and rescue us from ourselves. Sometimes God is willing to do that. I certainly have not suffered all of the harm that some of my actions might have caused. Perhaps God felt that I had learned the lesson without having to see the consequences. It is often more helpful to pray for the wisdom to see what caused the test and how to solve it ourselves.

The other situation that we very often see as punishment is a challenge that would have allowed us to grow, but that we failed to meet. Think of these as mini-graduation exams. If we pass them, then we are ready for bigger and better things, but if we fail, then we have to go back to learn some more. For the people who pass, the test in not a punishment, but rather an opportunity. For those who fail, it points out those areas where they need work. With the right attitude, even this can be seen as a gift, but most people who fail their tests, also fail to see the opportunity within them. For these people, tests really are a punishment.

When a teacher hands out a test, he or she often knows which students are likely to fail. Likewise, God also knows when we are going to fail. But that doesn’t mean that to give the test was a punishment. God never gives us a test that we can’t pass, but He often gives us tests that He knows we won’t pass. It is not a punishment because it is our choice not to live up to our own potential.

BW: Good to know that we are never tested beyond our capacities. How can one tell the difference between a God-give miseries and ones caused by us?

Justice: I’m not sure we can. For most of us, even the tests we cause ourselves seem to appear out of the blue. The good news is that it doesn’t matter. Our response should be the same either way. We have no control over the tests that God sends us, and lots of control over the ones we create for ourselves. If we assume the test was entirely from God, then we will not look for ways to keep it from happening in the future. If we believe it was all our own fault, then it is easy to become overwhelmed with shame or guilt. If we assume that it is a combination of the two, then we can practice gratitude for the lesson God wants us to learn at the same time as we look for the mistakes we might have made.

BW: Ok, it is a growth process. Is it true that suffering is a way of developing our spirit of faith?

Justice: I think that suffering, like all things that stimulate our nerves, help us focus and see more clearly whatever it is we are looking for. There are many for whom suffering is proof that God doesn’t exist, or doesn’t care about us if He does. It destroys their faith. For others, tests force them to turn their lives over to God so that He can solve their problems. For these, tests can increase their faith, as God is forced to perform miracles to keep them alive.

I prefer to use a test as an opportunity to take responsibility for my own life. Instead of asking God to solve my difficulty, I ask God to show me the tools of character I need to solve it myself. God is still solving the problem, because it is the attributes of God within me that are creating the solution, but instead of a passive recipient of God’s grace, I am an active participant in the solution.

BW: What would be your five most valuable suggestions when it comes to coping and benefiting from tests and tribulations?

Justice: First, let go of guilt, shame, fear and depression. They do absolutely no good.
Second, take responsibility for your own life. You have exactly the life you are willing to accept. God wants the best for you. If you don’t have it, it is not God’s fault.
Third, look for patterns. If you keep having the same kind of test over and over and over again, then either you are holding onto a belief that is not serving you well, or you are refusing to develop a virtue that God wants you to have before moving forward.
Fourth, don’t just pray for God to solve your problems. Pray that God shows you how to be an active participant in the solution to your problems.
Fifth, read my book. It has lots of additional information that would make this interview last way too long.

With that, I thank you for inviting me to share with your readers, and for asking such insightful questions. You really got me thinking again. I may have to write a sequel to Why Me? sooner than I thought.

BW: Justice, thank you for agreeing to this interview. Difficulties can come to anyone of us and knowing how to handle them is a life skill that we all need. It is better to survive them with positive outcome rather than crumble under them.